daneoni
Sep 19, 03:34 AM
Well Duh. As there will be a MacPro update, iPhone, (possibly) true video iPod and Leopard as well as iTV launch at MWSF
egan311
Apr 11, 12:54 PM
If true, this means that Apple has raised the white flag and accepted the defeat that Android has given to them. Not caring about the power of the hardware relative to others in the marketplace is a hallmark of a niche ecosystem.
Welcome to obscurity Apple - Population You
Yet another example of an opinion being passed off as 'fact'.
Not surprised given your chosen signature.
LOL! :D
So true.
Welcome to obscurity Apple - Population You
Yet another example of an opinion being passed off as 'fact'.
Not surprised given your chosen signature.
LOL! :D
So true.
AhmedFaisal
Apr 27, 10:29 PM
I'm seriously beginning to lose my patience with idiots. Is anyone else completely sick of these fools?
I lost it a long time ago. Trump is an asshat that should just shut the **** up and go back to diddling eastern european models and building casinos (is that christian right compliant I wonder?).
The truth is if Barack Obama was instead Piers Morgan or Simon Cowell and a republican candidate, there would have been an uproar if anyone had dared to ask if they were actually Americans by birth. Its racism, period. The right doesn't want a liberool n***** in the white house. That is it in the ****ing list. Anyone saying that's not what this is about is a ****ing liar.
I lost it a long time ago. Trump is an asshat that should just shut the **** up and go back to diddling eastern european models and building casinos (is that christian right compliant I wonder?).
The truth is if Barack Obama was instead Piers Morgan or Simon Cowell and a republican candidate, there would have been an uproar if anyone had dared to ask if they were actually Americans by birth. Its racism, period. The right doesn't want a liberool n***** in the white house. That is it in the ****ing list. Anyone saying that's not what this is about is a ****ing liar.
Willis
Jul 27, 01:45 PM
I havent checked yet to see if someone mentioned it, but in regard to what people expect to see at WWDC, dont worry if it isnt annouced then... Paris Expo is in September.
Mac Pro's might come out then i think.
Mac Pro's might come out then i think.
thejakill
Mar 22, 01:00 PM
I hope these catch on enough that I can actually buy an iPad.
Peace
Aug 6, 07:37 PM
I know it won't be live, but that's ok -- I just hate missing a Steve keynote -- I've watching them for several years now...
It's the streams I can't get w/the satellite internet. What exactly is a terrestrial café system? (And I haven't complained... this Apple stream thing is the only thing I've not been able to view... everything else works fine so I don't know what the deal is.
Who's your satellite company? I have Wildblue and I get around 1980Kbps downstream..
Oh and Multimedia.I just got a HD LCD TV with a new HD receiver from Echostar and after watching football in HD I'll never go back!!
It's the streams I can't get w/the satellite internet. What exactly is a terrestrial café system? (And I haven't complained... this Apple stream thing is the only thing I've not been able to view... everything else works fine so I don't know what the deal is.
Who's your satellite company? I have Wildblue and I get around 1980Kbps downstream..
Oh and Multimedia.I just got a HD LCD TV with a new HD receiver from Echostar and after watching football in HD I'll never go back!!
KingYaba
Aug 17, 09:02 AM
Well the Quad is still the fastest when it comes to CS2. But man, once those are intel native that thing is going to fly at lightspeed.
wPod
Jul 27, 10:27 AM
http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom
hate to be repetative, but this tells me what i already know.
Merom is pin compatible the Yonah's current socket.
but the quesiton comes with this line:
Still, this hasn't prevent users from installing prototype and engineering samples of the chips in Macs
Does anyone know if the chips that are actually shipping are the same as the prototype chips?
again, sorry for the repatition, but id really like to drop one of these in my mini and dont want to find out AFTER i tear apart the mini that the new chips wont fit!
hate to be repetative, but this tells me what i already know.
Merom is pin compatible the Yonah's current socket.
but the quesiton comes with this line:
Still, this hasn't prevent users from installing prototype and engineering samples of the chips in Macs
Does anyone know if the chips that are actually shipping are the same as the prototype chips?
again, sorry for the repatition, but id really like to drop one of these in my mini and dont want to find out AFTER i tear apart the mini that the new chips wont fit!
epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Eraserhead
Mar 1, 05:30 PM
Link, please.
Probably:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325635/Christian-couple-doomed-foster-carers-homosexuality-views.html
Probably:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325635/Christian-couple-doomed-foster-carers-homosexuality-views.html
nighthawk
Jul 20, 09:03 AM
At some point your going to have deminished returns. Sure multimedia apps can take advantage of a few more cores, but I dont see Mail running faster on 4 cores, nevermind 2! The nice thing about intel is that they seem to realise that, and have invested in improved IO as well, look at Pci express and SATA, you can have the fastest processor in the world, but if your running it with 512megs of memory your going to slow down fast!
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gallinger
Sep 13, 10:27 AM
does anyone know how much the clovertown chips are going to be?
Bill McEnaney
Mar 1, 04:55 AM
Couldn't God just forgive everyone and make heaven bigger?
However many people go to heaven, it'll have plenty of room them. For God to forgive sinners, they need to repent first.
However many people go to heaven, it'll have plenty of room them. For God to forgive sinners, they need to repent first.
aricher
Sep 14, 04:49 PM
He's totally mistaken! The Cloverton CPUs will *all* be 64-bits, as Woodcrest (found in current Mac Pros) is. Intel is not going to ever go back to a 32-bit Xeon class CPU.
The difference between Woodcrest and "Tigerton" is that Woodcrest CPUs achieve their "dual core" status by basically placing two complete Xeon CPUs under one outer casing, and making them communicate with each other through the front-side bus on the motherboard.
Cloverton will be the same way, but with 4 cores packed into one casing, instead of just two.
"Tigerton" will finally allow both cores to interconnect with each other through an internal interface built into the CPU, instead of slowing communications down by routing it off one CPU core, through the motherboard's front-side bus, and back onto the other core.
I got this great response this morning from my IT snob:
"Where in that linked article does it say 64bit? I see 65 nm, but not 64 bit. Duct taping two 32 bit cores together may get you Mac 64 bit processing... great for drawing cool pictures."
Anyone have a link that shows that Clovertown is 64 bit? Please help me to defeat this PC IT ogre
The difference between Woodcrest and "Tigerton" is that Woodcrest CPUs achieve their "dual core" status by basically placing two complete Xeon CPUs under one outer casing, and making them communicate with each other through the front-side bus on the motherboard.
Cloverton will be the same way, but with 4 cores packed into one casing, instead of just two.
"Tigerton" will finally allow both cores to interconnect with each other through an internal interface built into the CPU, instead of slowing communications down by routing it off one CPU core, through the motherboard's front-side bus, and back onto the other core.
I got this great response this morning from my IT snob:
"Where in that linked article does it say 64bit? I see 65 nm, but not 64 bit. Duct taping two 32 bit cores together may get you Mac 64 bit processing... great for drawing cool pictures."
Anyone have a link that shows that Clovertown is 64 bit? Please help me to defeat this PC IT ogre
DudeDad
Mar 26, 05:17 PM
Reading most of the posts, especially the negative / critical ones, I'm relieved that you guys don't work for Apple!
IMO, Lion will "merge"/"blend" some of the IOS look and feel. It will be a great selling point for those who own iPhones and iPads, but have not taken the Mac plunge....familiarity will be a huge selling point.
Don't like Launchpad? Don't use it. Use the dock or finder. I don't use spaces, but know many who swear by it. To each, his own.
I welcome the next version of Mac OS X, but I do not expect something so radically different that I'm setting myself up for disappointment.
Cheers....
IMO, Lion will "merge"/"blend" some of the IOS look and feel. It will be a great selling point for those who own iPhones and iPads, but have not taken the Mac plunge....familiarity will be a huge selling point.
Don't like Launchpad? Don't use it. Use the dock or finder. I don't use spaces, but know many who swear by it. To each, his own.
I welcome the next version of Mac OS X, but I do not expect something so radically different that I'm setting myself up for disappointment.
Cheers....
ryanx27
Aug 27, 10:32 PM
I like them as well, but I think it's been replaced with Merom next tuesday, G6 Video iPod next next tuesday and the good old iPhone next tuesday rumors.
Still good for a laugh ;)
Hahaha, "iPhone" is a one-word punchline
Still good for a laugh ;)
Hahaha, "iPhone" is a one-word punchline
Tomaz
Aug 7, 05:34 PM
Time Machine won't mean much when the HD fails. Back that azz up!
Also a very good point, so I need a bigger main HD for my MacBookPro (the new Seagate 160GB becomes interesting) for Time Machine, but i still need to back the hole thing up to an external HD in case of a HD crash (I had 2 in the last 8 months!). So Tine Machine doesn't make Backups obsolete, I didn't even think of that up to now. Hmmm..
Also a very good point, so I need a bigger main HD for my MacBookPro (the new Seagate 160GB becomes interesting) for Time Machine, but i still need to back the hole thing up to an external HD in case of a HD crash (I had 2 in the last 8 months!). So Tine Machine doesn't make Backups obsolete, I didn't even think of that up to now. Hmmm..
TripHop
Jun 9, 11:09 PM
No official word yet. The big thing with this is apple. They are very very particular with what we do at any time with the iPhone. I can't see apple letting us sell the iPhone at 6am if the apple stores don't. We should get more info in the next few days. I see apple controlling this and RadioShack, best buy, AT&T, and Wally world all starting sales at the same time.You mean Wal-Mart or something else? I've never heard of Wally World. Is that a chain back east? :confused:
braddouglass
Apr 6, 01:07 PM
Awesome, can't wait.
Picking up the 11" soon as they are out.
RICH B!tch! hahaha
I'm referring to his iMac and MBP and Iphone and Ipad and soon to be MBA
Picking up the 11" soon as they are out.
RICH B!tch! hahaha
I'm referring to his iMac and MBP and Iphone and Ipad and soon to be MBA
Moyank24
Apr 27, 12:45 PM
Maybe the certificate is legitimate, but I think the original short form would have been more convincing than a pristine copy of the long one. I like Obama, but I loathe his extreme liberalism.
Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but the copy is pristine because it is a copy. If you requested your birth certificate, they wouldn't give you an original...they would give you a certified copy. Brand new. Just typed up. They aren't going to hand you the original long form.
I suspected it was a copy, I've never trusted the president, and I probably never will. It's one thing to doubt that the certificate is legitimate. It's quite another to believe that the certificate is not legitimate.
You sure do like to go back and edit, don't you? :D
And you sure do like to talk in circles. So doubting and not believing the certificate is legitimate are two different things. What in the heck are you talking about?? You birthers are all alike...in the face of being proven wrong, you just try to make stuff up as you go along.
I now know that the certificate is a copy, and no, I don't trust President Obama
You don't trust Obama because of his extreme liberalism, or because of this certificate?
Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but the copy is pristine because it is a copy. If you requested your birth certificate, they wouldn't give you an original...they would give you a certified copy. Brand new. Just typed up. They aren't going to hand you the original long form.
I suspected it was a copy, I've never trusted the president, and I probably never will. It's one thing to doubt that the certificate is legitimate. It's quite another to believe that the certificate is not legitimate.
You sure do like to go back and edit, don't you? :D
And you sure do like to talk in circles. So doubting and not believing the certificate is legitimate are two different things. What in the heck are you talking about?? You birthers are all alike...in the face of being proven wrong, you just try to make stuff up as you go along.
I now know that the certificate is a copy, and no, I don't trust President Obama
You don't trust Obama because of his extreme liberalism, or because of this certificate?
Iconoclysm
Apr 20, 04:14 PM
Copying is copying. If someone else came out with an iProduct you can bet that Apple would slap a lawsuit on them. The Apple record logo was around for several years before Apple computer. I'm sure Jobs knew of the Beatles, he was a long haired hippie back in the 70's. So the logo could have been influenced by the Beatles.
Copying is not copying when you don't even know about what was done before...and we know the story about what influenced Apple, the alphabet. And the logo isn't even the same - it's the name that the suit was over, not the logo. Knowing about the record label wasn't on the front page of the newspaper, this was the 1970's...there was no internet, it's more than just a little possible that Jobs did not know this. And you're assuming that logo was everywhere, and you're wrong.
Copying is not copying when you don't even know about what was done before...and we know the story about what influenced Apple, the alphabet. And the logo isn't even the same - it's the name that the suit was over, not the logo. Knowing about the record label wasn't on the front page of the newspaper, this was the 1970's...there was no internet, it's more than just a little possible that Jobs did not know this. And you're assuming that logo was everywhere, and you're wrong.
bluetorch18
Aug 26, 04:02 PM
Merom MBP on Tuesday? I sure hope so.
drsmithy
Sep 13, 08:41 PM
Mac OS X distributes threads and processes across cores/CPUs to optimize performance already. (Subject to some limitations, as noted already.)
[...]
(Note: I keep specifying 'Mac' here. There is a reason. Windows isn't as good at multithreading/processing yet...)
Uh, no. Windows NT is better at multithreading - and particularly multiprocessor scheduling - largely because it's been doing it for a lot longer and on a lot more powerful hardware. NT was running on quad-processor machines a decade ago.
Prior to 10.4, OS X had roughly the same level of SMP support Windows NT had back around the 1993 - 95 timeframe, with Windows NT 3.x.
The improvements in 10.4 start to put it in the ballpark of NT 4.0, ca. 1996.
10.5 will probably put it on par with Windows 2000, maybe XP.
[...]
(Note: I keep specifying 'Mac' here. There is a reason. Windows isn't as good at multithreading/processing yet...)
Uh, no. Windows NT is better at multithreading - and particularly multiprocessor scheduling - largely because it's been doing it for a lot longer and on a lot more powerful hardware. NT was running on quad-processor machines a decade ago.
Prior to 10.4, OS X had roughly the same level of SMP support Windows NT had back around the 1993 - 95 timeframe, with Windows NT 3.x.
The improvements in 10.4 start to put it in the ballpark of NT 4.0, ca. 1996.
10.5 will probably put it on par with Windows 2000, maybe XP.
hynke
Apr 27, 08:54 AM
And what if I want to keep things how they are right now. If Apple says that they will reduce the size of the database stored in your phone, it also means that iPhone will communicate with Apple's servers more often (instead of finding reference in it's own database it will ask Apple's servers for it). That will cause more data traffic, slower location services and faster battery discharge.
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